Re: Rants

[eselle28]

This story bothers me a lot: http://twentytwowords.com/dad-makes-10-year-old-literally-dress-her-age-after-catching-her-posing-as-a-teen-online/

It bothers me a lot too, and it bothered me when I first saw it reported. My parents used shame based punishments quite heavily when I was a child. Nothing very comparable to this in substance, but lots of things that were off the mark. In my case, the worst offense was being told to apologize to the man who was abusing me for being weird and hot and cold (particularly the cold part) toward him and getting rid of the clothing that I'd purchased (with my own allowance!) that they saw as contributing to me being all weird and hot and cold. That's a bit more extreme than what's going on here, but I think that's what's being asked of her is veering very far toward making what's happening to her seem like her fault. Because, it's really not. She's a child. She's being dumb like kids are and is trying to seem older, like kids do. She's running into older dudes who really probably know better and who are nodding at her claims of being whatever age. I mean, there's a problem on her family's end, but there's also a problem on the end of the dudes who are "mistaking" a 10-year-old in sexy clothing as a potential partner. I also suspect that this sort of shaming will make her rebel and want to appear even older than she does now. She's essentially being told that wearing younger children's clothing is shaming. The natural conclusion from that is that people who are worth looking up to wear older-looking clothes.

[Wondering]

I'd be surprised if she can find "age appropriate" clothing her in size anyway. If she's that tall, she can probably only shop in the teen and women's departments.

Ugh. Misguided is probably the tamest word for what that dad did.

[eselle28]

I'd be surprised if she can find "age appropriate" clothing her in size anyway. If she's that tall, she can probably only shop in the teen and women's departments.

Ugh. Misguided is probably the tamest word for what that dad did.

That is a good point. I think I recognize those jeans, and that's a women's brand. The top half of her body isn't all that child-shaped, either. It would be so much kinder of him to have her mother, or another woman in her life, help her find tops that are flattering but which her parents are also okay with.

[azazel]

So... apparently my gender role has been reassigned to look pretty and receive messages instead of having to send them while I was not looking, but it's less less stressful than I imagined (of note: I'm talking "normal" messages here, obviously I would expect receiving abuse (counting spam as abuse here too) as stressful already).

Having to reject people sucks, and that while I had a good reason for it (she's ace, I'm not).

(incidentally, is this a good rejection?)

Spoiler:

And now I'm getting into the situation where I might have two dates in the near future, and it's already triggering anxiety over potentially leading people on, getting accusations of friendzoning people and all that jazz.

I need a "womening for dummies" ASAP

[Barretts_Salt]

And now I'm getting into the situation where I might have two dates in the near future, and it's already triggering anxiety over potentially leading people on, getting accusations of friendzoning people and all that jazz.

I need a "womening for dummies" ASAP

As far as your spoiler goes, I don't see how you could have said it any better.

As far as the other issues go, I have to say it hurts to be on either side of the invitation.  I vividly remember how much it hurts to get turned down -- and I've hated the times that I've had to say that it just. wouldn't. work.  For whatever reason.  

And as to leading on and accusations of friendzoning?  No one can control what other people think about them, so try not to let misinterpretations bother you -- easier said than done, of course:)

So all I can say is best wishes?  I wish I had something more helpful to offer.

What other parts of womening were you interested in -- if any?

[reboot]

Also, go into the dates with some skepticism about whether you want to be more than friends or know the women at all. After all, it is not a unilateral decision, you may be the one giving the "I am just not feeling it" line. And try to relax and think of it as getting to know someone better rather than loading the situation with heavier meaning.

[reboot]

<MOD> I am going to split this topic because I think the "What to disclose" question has some legs to it and concerns a lot of people, but we are kind of out of ranting and into discussion </MOD>

EDIT: Thread on OLD disclosure can be found here

Please continue ranting in this thread

[nearly_takuan]

http://www.donotlink.com/framed?536125

Edit: Don't read the above if you're triggered by discussion of rape/sexual assault. Dude who wrote this is a fucking tool and deserves the callout in the comments because, seriously. But it is mentioned. Now on with the rant, directed at the author of this stinking shitpile.

You, sir, are a blight on the internet. You are not content to merely be ignorant and self-centered; you publish your misinformed opinions and uneducated guesses as if they were well-documented facts. You are not satisfied as simply an armchair psycho-quack spewing your drivel on a Wordpress blog; you evidently write novels from your own idiotic perspective and use these "articles" to shamelessly promote them. You callous, callow, misogynistic asshole. You think leaving your comments section as-is makes you look better? You think you still have the moral high ground? Or any ground? You're not the first to express such views and won't be the last, but you're the only one I've seen yet who has so generously volunteered to put them all on public display in the same place. A permanent uncomfortable rash would be too kind a fate for you.

[azazel]

Hey Nearly, personally I'm not sure if I believe in the effectiveness of trigger warnings, but people seem to appreciate them, so could you add a TW for rape in your post (I expect especially the comment section to be triggering)?

[nearly_takuan]

Thanks for pointing that out. Added.

[azazel]

Thanks for pointing that out. Added.

Np.

I did forget to say that I agreed it was a vile piece of shit the likes of which should never have left the brain of the admitted rapist that wrote it, but I'd hope that went without saying?

[The Wisp]

Getting an upper endoscopy in a few hours, which wouldn't be a big deal except they're probably going to make me take a consciousness sedative. I have a bit of a phobia of those drugs, to be honest, even though I was on one once years ago for some minor outpatient surgery and it was no big deal (I think I regained memory about 1/2 hour after they took the IV out). I didn't sleep well last night during to this phobia.

I'm going to ask them if the drug is necessary. After all, this is a quick, painless procedure, but they'll probably still say no.

I guess one comfort is that when I will actually be able to worry about the drug its major effects will already have ceased.

[The Wisp]

Well, it went well. I was really anxious going into it, to the point of shaking, but the iv meds made quick work.of that. I feel great! No anxiety. I kinda wish I felt this way all the time. I was joking around with the nurse. More evidence that it is anxiety, not my social skills, holding me back.

[Guest]

So I read one of Mark Manson's articles, specifically this one on attracting women.

He says being open about your desires helps, but then kinda contradicts himself. Uhhh... what? I don't quite understand. This article already made me feel like shit so, you're saying I can or can't? Why is this is so complicated? I know women in general don't like me already so... what then?

[reboot]

And China denied my visa, which really should not surprise me, but does annoy me. Looks like that layover in Hong Kong is going to be longer than planned. There are worse places to be for Christmas, I suppose.

[nearly_takuan]

So I read one of Mark Manson's articles, specifically this one on attracting women.

He says being open about your desires helps, but then kinda contradicts himself. Uhhh... what? I don't quite understand. This article already made me feel like shit so, you're saying I can or can't? Why is this is so complicated? I know women in general don't like me already so... what then?

Ugh. I should have heeded your warning.

He also talks a lot about "owning your sexuality". Sigh.

[nonA]

Why is this is so complicated? I know women in general don't like me already so... what then?

Incidentally, I'm sure you've heard women say a lot about how much they dislike guys who use topless selfies.

First, realize that it takes an exceptional level of self-awareness to know what really does or does not work for you. Most people are not exceptionally self-aware.

Second, thinking that something is gospel truth just because it comes out of a woman's mouth is a dangerous path. They're going to, with the best of intentions, say something that ranges from simply untrue to actively counterproductive. If you think that by following their stated rules is going to eventually get you close to someone, it's not much of a cognitive leap to feel cheated when the "rules" you were offered fail to pan out. That way lies much bitterness.

Third, I've seen little evidence that women actively dislike you. I've seen evidence that you don't especially turn their crank, but apathy != antipathy.

Fourth, the choice is up to you. You can keep trying to live up to what women claim they want. Or you can look at the guys they actually go for, try to figure out what traits they have in common, and work from there. But the two data sets will conflict at points. When they do, you have to chose which one you want to go with.

[Enail]

NonA, I'm sure you didn't mean to be making it sound like you're saying women particularly are incapable of identifying what they want rather than that people in general don't, since you've been warned a fair bit about that, right?

 Or you can look at the guys they actually go for, try to figure out what traits they have in common, and work from there. But the two data sets will conflict at points. When they do, you have to chose which one you want to go with.

I'd note that people trying to backwards-engineer desirable traits often seem to misidentify the salient commonalities or actively identify things that fit well with their assumptions but not actually all that well with the facts (such as assuming the people they go for are assholes or bimbos when they have no particular information as to their decency or intelligence), so be careful how you go about this.

[Guest]

Incidentally, I'm sure you've heard women say a lot about how much they dislike guys who use topless selfies.

Wut. What does that have to do with anything? I don't have abs, so why bother?

First, realize that it takes an exceptional level of self-awareness to know what really does or does not work for you.  Most people are not exceptionally self-aware.

I was gonna say different things work for different people. I am different, but so far, nothing has worked.

Second, thinking that something is gospel truth just because it comes out of a woman's mouth is a dangerous path.  They're going to, with the best of intentions, say something that ranges from simply untrue to actively counterproductive.  If you think that by following their stated rules is going to eventually get you close to someone, it's not much of a cognitive leap to feel cheated when the "rules" you were offered fail to pan out.  That way lies much bitterness.

Nobody's ever given me a set of rules, but more ideas to try, which I've gone with and none have worked so I'm left stuck and frustrated, not so much bitter. I've asked people questions and never get a straight or consistent answer.

Third, I've seen little evidence that women actively dislike you.  I've seen evidence that you don't especially turn their crank, but apathy != antipathy.

I've seen little evidence that they like me beyond just friendly. Although I don't understand the "apathy != antipathy" part...

Fourth, the choice is up to you.  You can keep trying to live up to what women claim they want.  Or you can look at the guys they actually go for, try to figure out what traits they have in common, and work from there.  But the two data sets will conflict at points.  When they do, you have to chose which one you want to go with.

I find enough conflict and experience enough cognitive dissonance when it comes to dating and women that I've begun considering chemical castration. I apologize if this sounds like a terrible idea, tbh, it's not like I could afford it anyway.

I remember a friend of mine telling me how there's a parts in the brain that regulate everything from what we feel to what arouses us and I asked "Is there a way to turn that off? Can I be a robot?" Her answer was simple, "Nope, because then you'd laugh yourself to death." Or something to that extent. A guy just can't win, can he? I wanna be a robot dammit! Or at the least a legit Vulcan...

I'd note that people trying to backwards-engineer desirable traits often seem to misidentify the salient commonalities or actively identify things that fit well with their assumptions but not actually all that well with the facts (such as assuming the people they go for are assholes or bimbos when they have no particular information as to their decency or intelligence), so be careful how you go about this.

Good thing I'm not an engineer and instead act in accordance to my own best judgement. Which isn't the best judgement either.

[nearly_takuan]

Third, I've seen little evidence that women actively dislike you.  I've seen evidence that you don't especially turn their crank, but apathy != antipathy.

I've seen little evidence that they like me beyond just friendly. Although I don't understand the "apathy != antipathy" part...

Apathy is what you described—women do not actively like you / have strong feelings about you.
Antipathy is what nonA read into it, the idea that a person would actively dislike you.
His point is that they aren't the same. Which is true, I suppose.

[Guest]

Apathy is what you described—women do not actively like you / have strong feelings about you.
Antipathy is what nonA read into it, the idea that a person would actively dislike you.
His point is that they aren't the same. Which is true, I suppose.

I suppose as well. But what I was referring to is that, for the most part, most women aren't attracted to me. Friendly, yes, but that's it and that's fine, it sucks, but it's whatever. There ain't a whole lot I can do to attract women to me, that I know of at least, I'm outta ideas.

I really need to hit a blunt and see if that don't change my perception of what's really important in my life. Yes, that is from a Katt Williams bit.

[azazel]

Incidentally, I'm sure you've heard women say a lot about how much they dislike guys who use topless selfies.

Wut. What does that have to do with anything? I don't have abs, so why bother?

His point seemed to be that things that people say they hate universally (in this example topless selfies) actually work pretty well in attracting them. But that's more of biology seeping through genderroles bullshit (men shouldn't be sexual because SOCIETY/ biology tells you that sexual men are pretty awesome) than anything else.

Have you considered making a topic where you let people analyse your OKCupid messages to see where it goes wrong?

[kath]

An offhand comment to one other person about my thin fingernails is not an invitation to people nearby to ask me if I'm getting enough calcium. Those two things are not connected!

Also, thanks to the other person who also joined in to tell me to get a particular Revlon product. I appreciate the suggestion. But when I'm like "oh, what's different about that one, I've tried lots and haven't had a lot of success," don't get snippy. I'm asking because I have actually tried a lot of things with the same name. Especially since I wasn't talking to any of you or asking for nail advice when you all swooped in to give it and question my diet and overall health.

[Guest]

His point seemed to be that things that people say they hate universally (in this example topless selfies) actually work pretty well in attracting them. But that's more of biology seeping through genderroles bullshit (men shouldn't be sexual because SOCIETY/ biology tells you that sexual men are pretty awesome) than anything else.

Have you considered making a topic where you let people analyse your OKCupid messages to see where it goes wrong?

How does that help *me* though? I don't have abs to show lol

Naw, I already turned off my profile again. Doesn't matter if you wrote Shakespeare or a cleverest joke ever, neither guarantee or warrant a response from anyone. Can I just be an android now? D:

[Guest]

True, Mikey, people don't come with cheat codes which is just the way I like it.

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