Re: The Same OLD Stories: Dating Profile/Message Advice

by KMR Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:27 pm

Xexyz wrote:
Since you're advising the near opposite of what I've been doing, perhaps I've fundamentally misunderstood the customs and expectations with online chatting? I've always tried to approach online chatting with the same courtesy that I would use if I was going to chat with a stranger in real life.

That's the thing, I actually perceive online dating to have slightly different social rules than those for interacting with a stranger in real life, which is why I advocate some of these points. When you approach a person in most real life settings, you don't necessarily know if they're interested in talking to you or anyone else at that moment, so you would need to use these little small talk tools to gauge if they're open to a conversation, to ease into it, and to give them opportunities to bow out if they're not interested. In OLD, people have an easy out: if they're not interested, they won't reply. They're expecting messages from strangers, so as long as yours isn't rude or hurtful, it's not going to be an imposition. Therefore, you don't need to ask them if they want to hear from you, you can just dive in and say what you want to say. If they want to talk, they'll respond, and if they don't, they won't.

A lot of those small talk phrases in real life tend to act as place-holders until you happen to hit on some point of information that sparks a deeper conversation. But in OLD, the person's profile already serves that purpose, giving you an idea of who that person is, whether you might get along with them, and giving lots of potential topics for conversation. So the small talk step isn't actually necessary; they're just sort of filler words, which aren't inherently bad, they just aren't doing very much for you. Honestly, I think that as long as you're doing the stuff in points 3 & 4, you could get away with including the phrases I was saying to avoid in points 1 & 2. The times where it becomes an issue is if your entire message is just "Hi, how are you this evening?" and you're waiting for a reply to that before saying anything else. That's a standard way to start a conversation in real life, but it doesn't really work so well in OLD.

Here's an example of a message that I've replied to, which pretty much follows the formula I described above:

Chrono Trigger: Great RPG or greatest RPG?

I've been playing through Bravely Default for the 3DS and highly recommend it if you enjoy deep class systems (similar to Final Fantasy 5) and interesting battle dynamics. The story is a little weak, unfortunately, but the boss battles are so interesting I gave it a pass. Have you been playing anything interesting lately?

Also, how are you liking Doctor Who? I just hit season 5 and am suffering from a bit of a David Tennant withdrawal. I like it, though. It's a little cheesy and inconsistent, but I usually find myself looking forward to the next episode.

Anyway, hope you have a great week!

by Xexyz Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:25 pm

KMR wrote:That's the thing, I actually perceive online dating to have slightly different social rules than those for interacting with a stranger in real life, which is why I advocate some of these points. When you approach a person in most real life settings, you don't necessarily know if they're interested in talking to you or anyone else at that moment, so you would need to use these little small talk tools to gauge if they're open to a conversation, to ease into it, and to give them opportunities to bow out if they're not interested. In OLD, people have an easy out: if they're not interested, they won't reply. They're expecting messages from strangers, so as long as yours isn't rude or hurtful, it's not going to be an imposition. Therefore, you don't need to ask them if they want to hear from you, you can just dive in and say what you want to say. If they want to talk, they'll respond, and if they don't, they won't.

A lot of those small talk phrases in real life tend to act as place-holders until you happen to hit on some point of information that sparks a deeper conversation. But in OLD, the person's profile already serves that purpose, giving you an idea of who that person is, whether you might get along with them, and giving lots of potential topics for conversation. So the small talk step isn't actually necessary; they're just sort of filler words, which aren't inherently bad, they just aren't doing very much for you. Honestly, I think that as long as you're doing the stuff in points 3 & 4, you could get away with including the phrases I was saying to avoid in points 1 & 2. The times where it becomes an issue is if your entire message is just "Hi, how are you this evening?" and you're waiting for a reply to that before saying anything else. That's a standard way to start a conversation in real life, but it doesn't really work so well in OLD.

This is very helpful, thanks.

Chrono Trigger: Great RPG or greatest RPG?

I've been playing through Bravely Default for the 3DS and highly recommend it if you enjoy deep class systems (similar to Final Fantasy 5) and interesting battle dynamics. The story is a little weak, unfortunately, but the boss battles are so interesting I gave it a pass. Have you been playing anything interesting lately?

Also, how are you liking Doctor Who? I just hit season 5 and am suffering from a bit of a David Tennant withdrawal. I like it, though. It's a little cheesy and inconsistent, but I usually find myself looking forward to the next episode.

Anyway, hope you have a great week!

Wow, I would've never considered sending a message like this; if I wrote something like this I would've softened it up a bunch, thinking it was too pushy and aggressive. But I'm going to keep it in mind the next time I send a message and try to use it as a guide. It's going to be a challenge though, since I'm naturally very shy and reserved.

by Kiskadee Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:56 pm

Hi Xexyz,

Personally I don't think those messages are bad at all - I've almost never had someone write me ones as nice as that, and would definitely reply to ones like those if there seemed to be any compatibility. And KMR, it's hard to write long, involved initial messages when the likelihood of being ignored is so high regardless of what you write.

But overall I agreed with the advice the others gave, and only had one thing to add. Instead of questions such as "how was your day/weekend/etc?", you may want to say things like "I hope you had/have a great day/weekend/etc." This allows the polite small talk if you want that, and implies that you care about others' feelings, but without making her feel like she should reply with an answer that, if honest, could be something like "super shitty, because my cat started projectile vomiting and my roof started leaking." This in addition to seeming overly intrusive. This phrasing is actually used in the positive example message above.

by WJMorris3 Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:15 am

...I actually got a somewhat positive response to my profile, and I am absolutely clueless what to do.

by Wondering Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:19 am

What was the response, if you don't mind saying?

by WJMorris3 Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:27 am

It was just very cordial, and she reached out to me first.

(Yes, I know, it's pathetic that I call this positive. But when you're used to people contacting you to tell you no...)

by Wondering Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:27 pm

Well, I would respond by by sending a cordial message in return. Smile

by gaboz Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:35 am

WJMorris3 wrote:It was just very cordial, and she reached out to me first.

(Yes, I know, it's pathetic that I call this positive. But when you're used to people contacting you to tell you no...)

Pathetic? bullshit!

Someone likes you for you and that is pathetic? Man go own that message as suggested by Wondering

by WJMorris3 Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:21 pm

gaboz wrote:
WJMorris3 wrote:It was just very cordial, and she reached out to me first.

(Yes, I know, it's pathetic that I call this positive. But when you're used to people contacting you to tell you no...)

Pathetic? bullshit!

Someone likes you for you and that is pathetic? Man go own that message as suggested by Wondering

What I'm saying is pathetic, and I think you may have misinterpreted what I said...

When I am used to people who are high match percentages sending a first message saying they aren't interested, even if I hadn't sent them a message, or getting pictures reported because I "look like a rapist", that I'm taking a neutral message like "Hello, how are you?" as a positive as opposed to the neutral it was likely intended is a bit pathetic. I think this is the first time in the four years I've had this profile that I actually got a neutral response, as opposed to a negative.

So I've exchanged a few basic messages, and one thing that she asked was if I had any dealbreakers. Uh oh, this is about to blow up in my face, I know there's one big one that will probably end this. So I wrote:

"I'm very hesitant to talk about dealbreakers because I'm afraid that I may trigger one of yours. I would much rather have a more emotional relationship than a more physical relationship. Maybe it's because I react oddly to people touching me, especially if I don't know them very well. Maybe it's because I don't have much if any interest in certain acts. But I'm a bit skittish to touch."

No response yet; here's hoping.

by **Enail** Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:27 pm

That sounds like she's messaging you in a neutral but friendly way to try and start a conversation and is interested in finding out if you two would be a good match. Whether or not anything comes of it beyond that first exchange, I think it's correct to the point of just being factual to take it as a positive response, and not pathetic or desperate in the slightest.

by WJMorris3 Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:54 pm

Okay, so it's been a week; no response yet; am I obligated to send a message wishing her best of luck in the future, but it seems we're not right for each other?

by **Werel** Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:59 pm

I would not message her again. When a stranger has dropped contact with you, "should I contact them some more" is a pretty easy "nope." "Am I obligated to" is an even easier nope.

by BasedBuzzed Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:09 am

It depends. My rule is two clear silences is an end to the convo, with a third message only allowed if my previous one was difficult to follow up on. In the last message, always give a reason and convey a piece of info that adds value to it even if it does not have a follow-up from her side. No long disclaimers or apologies for bothering her or anything.

F. ex.
Me: That is indeed awesome.
(no response because the message is hard to follow up on)
Me: Anyway, are you into [x]? I myself [blahblah].
(silence)
(after at max a week)
Me: We talked about [y] previously and this popped up on my dash, maybe you'll like it.
(convo ends here if no replies are said and she will still get something from the convo even if she does not bother to reply)

In other news, lurking at the start of Who's New works pretty well on OKC. Quicker replies than usual, mainly because folks do not have a backlog yet.

by Dannyboy Fri May 06, 2016 8:09 pm

Hey guys, I'm trying this...again, lol.

I don't suppose you all could give me profile feedback again?

https://www.okcupid.com/profile/SweetSweetNuthin

by Wondering Fri May 06, 2016 8:30 pm

Marty Robbins? Lord above. I think you're the only other person I've encountered who listens to Marty Robbins.

Typos in the profile. Double check/proofread that.

And I don't like this. It's comes across to me as mean:

and, occasionally, assisting the mentally unstable in their quest to convince the local judge not to commit them.

by Guest Sat May 28, 2016 5:49 pm

Is it okay to answer some OKC questions honestly? Like there's sex questions where I've put down I'm a virgin (cuz, you know it's true), but that usually pops up as an unacceptable for the other person.

And I'm left thinking "What the hell? Really?"

by **reboot** Sat May 28, 2016 6:14 pm

The Mikey wrote:Is it okay to answer some OKC questions honestly? Like there's sex questions where I've put down I'm a virgin (cuz, you know it's true), but that usually pops up as an unacceptable for the other person.

And I'm left thinking "What the hell? Really?"

Answer all questions honestly but skip any questions you do not want to answer before meeting someone.

Remember that your answer may be considered "unacceptable" for the generic virgin for people who might find it "acceptable" for a person they know and like. For this question, I would answer it honestly if you want to just get the information out there and not have to deal with it again. If you think handling this question face to face, and possibly being rejected for it face, is something you can handle, then skip it to widen your potential partner pool.

by Guest Sat May 28, 2016 7:06 pm

reboot wrote:

Answer all questions honestly but skip any questions you do not want to answer before meeting someone.

Remember that your answer may be considered "unacceptable" for the generic virgin for people who might find it "acceptable" for a person they know and like. For this question, I would answer it honestly if you want to just get the information out there and not have to deal with it again. If you think handling this question face to face, and possibly being rejected for it face, is something you can handle, then skip it to widen your potential partner pool.

Right, that's typically what I do. Some questions are... sketchy, to say the least. If there's a question I'm not 100% on I tend to skip it.

Generic virgin people? Whaaa? I-I... don't think I quite understand what you mean. Are you saying that if they like what they see, then being a virgin is more of a feature than a flaw? scratch

And obviously I answered it to get it out of the way, but at the same time I feel like that would turn some women away (a lot of them, there are a lot of ladies who are far more experienced than me)?

by **reboot** Sat May 28, 2016 8:32 pm

The Mikey wrote:....

Generic virgin people? Whaaa? I-I... don't think I quite understand what you mean. Are you saying that if they like what they see, then being a virgin is more of a feature than a flaw? And obviously I answered it to get it out of the way, but at the same time I feel like that would turn some women away (a lot of them, there are a lot of ladies who are far more experienced than me)?

There are stereotypes or specific experiences in people's heads about virgins that make them say "unacceptable" that might not apply if they knew someone and liked them and then learned that they were a virgin. It is not fair, and it is not right, but it is.

Nearest equivalent is my parents who go on tirades about "the blacks" and "the Mexicans" but when I bring up specific black people (e.g. the nice postal worker) or the Guatemalan ladies from church (my parents use Mexican for anyone who speaks Spanish *headdesk*) they are, "Oh them? No they are different. I mean the others."

by **Hirundo Bos** Sat May 28, 2016 8:58 pm

I can also add that seeing your answer in red doesn't automatically mean it's unacceptable for the other person... as far as I know you don't get how much they said the answer mattered, and it's quite a big range between "absolute dealbreaker " and "mild preference", though I suppose even the latter can be a bit discouraging.

by Guest Sat May 28, 2016 9:09 pm

reboot wrote:
There are stereotypes or specific experiences in people's heads about virgins that make them say "unacceptable" that might not apply if they knew someone and liked them and then learned that they were a virgin. It is not fair, and it is not right, but it is.

Nearest equivalent is my parents who go on tirades about "the blacks" and "the Mexicans" but when I bring up specific black people (e.g. the nice postal worker) or the Guatemalan ladies from church (my parents use Mexican for anyone who speaks Spanish *headdesk*) they are, "Oh them? No they are different. I mean the others."

Ahh okay, that makes way more sense. Virginity is not exactly an instant deal breaker, from the get go, if someone met me they wouldn't know for a fact unless I told them otherwise. Gotcha. Oh well, guess I'll have to live with that. I can picture it in my mind now, a woman on OKC looking my shit over "Wow, he cares about this! And... Ohhh, he's a virgin, never mind." Razz

And ya know, I myself have Mexican roots since both my parents are from there lol.

Hirundo Bos wrote:I can also add that seeing your answer in red doesn't automatically mean it's unacceptable for the other person... as far as I know you don't get how much they said the answer mattered, and it's quite a big range between "absolute dealbreaker " and "mild preference", though I suppose even the latter can be a bit discouraging.

What's discouraging? Their mild preference of their fella not being a virgin? Yeah, I suppose so. Ultimately it's their call and there's not much I could do about that. Prolly screwed myself over telling a few women (-coughInternGirlcough-) I was a virgin. Ah well, keep on trucking.

by **Hirundo Bos** Sat May 28, 2016 9:23 pm

Well, whether it's actually discouraging for you if someone mildly prefers meeting a non-virgin I don't know... I would think it's a big deal to some people if a potential partner cares about their history, less of a deal to others. In either case, that would be a matter of preference too... whether you strongly prefer, mildly prefer, or maybe don't about what they think of your sexual history. If that makes any sense, it's getting a little late in my time zone.

by Guest Sun May 29, 2016 12:05 am

Hirundo Bos wrote:Well, whether it's actually discouraging for you if someone mildly prefers meeting a non-virgin I don't know... I would think it's a big deal to some people if a potential partner cares about their history, less of a deal to others. In either case, that would be a matter of preference too... whether you strongly prefer, mildly prefer, or maybe don't about what they think of your sexual history. If that makes any sense, it's getting a little late in my time zone.

For me it would be discouraging because it feels like a judgement on me as a person. I dunno, just kinda sucks, a little.

Personally, I would prefer they didn't give a shit about whether or not I've slept with anyone much like I don't give a shit if they have or haven't. I don't need to know who they've slept with, I just need to know what they like if and when the time comes. Though, it sounds like if they find out I'm a virgin it's a deal breaker, which is perfectly fine. Sure it hurts my feelings a little, but that's their preference.

So then what do I do?

by Wondering Sun May 29, 2016 2:18 am

Okay, so, I'm a woman who didn't want to date men who were virgins and would have avoided a guy who said in an online dating site that he was a virgin. And then I met my husband and found out much farther into the relationship that he was a virgin and didn't care because I knew him.

Why did I feel that way? Well, I'm not the only woman on this site who's said that at some point in her dating life she decided to stop dating nerd men because of issues ranging from entitlement to missing stairs to geek social fallacies to a host of other things that are very particular to the nerd community and its treatment of women. Nerd virgin men? My experience with nerd men who said they were virgins was even worse. The entitlement, whinyness, and expectations of emotional labor skyrocketed. Now, that doesn't mean all nerd men virgins were like that. My husband was not. But nerd men who made a point of saying they were virgins? Yeah. You see so many of them all the time on DNL's blog. Not the guys actually looking for help, but the guys with creepy ideas that 14 should be the age of consent or that they're owed blow jobs and PiV sex because of the bullying they suffered as kids and on and on and on. So, yeah. I would avoid guys who said they were virgins. Because I and my women friends had really really bad experiences with more than just one of them.

My husband? I knew he was feminist friendly before I met him in person. I found out he was fully feminist as I dated him. I knew he wasn't creepy or entitled. And then I found out he was a virgin and it didn't matter.

Is that fair? Maybe not to men who want all the women in their dating pool. But I also don't think it's fair to expect women to continue to put themselves in situations that have consistently and continually been harmful or dangerous to them because not all guys who fit that descriptor are like that. (And I really, really don't think it's fair to compare women who say they don't want to date virgins to people who talk about The Blacks or The Mexicans but don't have problems with the one they know who's totally okay. I have a Serious Problem with that comparison.)

So, does it matter that you're a virgin. No? Does it matter that you make a point to say you're a virgin? Maybe. I recommend just not answering the question.

by **reboot** Sun May 29, 2016 11:17 am

Wondering wrote:..... (And I really, really don't think it's fair to compare women who say they don't want to date virgins to people who talk about The Blacks or The Mexicans but don't have problems with the one they know who's totally okay. I have a Serious Problem with that comparison.)

So, does it matter that you're a virgin. No? Does it matter that you make a point to say you're a virgin? Maybe. I recommend just not answering the question.

Yeah, it is not a great comparison but it was the only one I could come up with where people said they disliked something, but it did not bother them if people they knew and liked had that quality. Your story of your husband is much more on point. Truth is, I have never known if the people I know are virgins or not, so have no direct experience on the topic. My apologies for the offensive analogy

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